Posts by Joe Grundy

20

Death unnatural in humans...another Watchtower lie!

by Gill in

the wtbts teaches that death in human beings is unnatural and was brought about by adam eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.. they claim that one of the proofs that death is not natural in humans is the reaction of humans when one of their number dies....terrible grief.

they claim that animals do not care if one of their number dies.

they give the example of sheep in a field who couldn't give two hoots if a fellow sheep dropped dead.. however, the mate of a neighbours dog died a few weeks ago.

Joe Grundy

Hi Gill

If it's any consolation at all, when my daughter was 16/17 she asked her mum and I if we would sign a form for social services to the effect that we were irreconcileably distanced from her so that she could leave home and get housing benefit to live in a flat. We were quite upset and angry and told her that no, we weren't distanced, she wa just a teenager who at times was a pain in the ass!

Now (she is 23) we can laugh at it (even though her mum is now my ex, we are still good friends) and she agrees she was a bit daft and trying it on. (She also remembers with some humour how she had met the love of her life and decided she wanted to spend the night with him. So we talked about it, and her mum bought candles and things, her mum and I went out for the night and stayed in a hotel so daughter could have her 'first' in comfort rather than squalor, the back of a car, etc. Daughter now thinks (as do we) that this guy was a dork).

You do the best for your kids, and all you can do is hope it turns out OK.

Only you and your hubby know your son, but IME, I wouldn't worry too much about giving him the 'conform or you're out' option. He is old enough and I don't think there's too much risk you will lose him for ever. When he's just a little older he may well realise that his behaviour is not that well thought out.

As for his JW upbringing, I never was so I can't comment. But it seems to me that if he had love, a home etc. he doesn't have much to complain about. Better parents who care enough to set rules which in hindsight seem a bit wacky than parents who don't care enough to set any at all.

20

Death unnatural in humans...another Watchtower lie!

by Gill in

the wtbts teaches that death in human beings is unnatural and was brought about by adam eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.. they claim that one of the proofs that death is not natural in humans is the reaction of humans when one of their number dies....terrible grief.

they claim that animals do not care if one of their number dies.

they give the example of sheep in a field who couldn't give two hoots if a fellow sheep dropped dead.. however, the mate of a neighbours dog died a few weeks ago.

Joe Grundy

Gill,

I was reading somewhere recently on the net about elephants who return to grieve after the death of one of the herd. can't remember where or give a link.

How are your current problems with son? Any resolution? (Just being nosey) but thinking of you.

13

ABOUT BEARDS AND JW,s ?

by moomanchu in

this is a jw friendly version of one of farkels posts that i plagarized.. it's useful to send to jw,s who are clueless as to why they can not have facial hair.. .

there was a falling away from the bible students after the disappointment of 1914 and the death of ctr in 1916.for the first approximately 10 years during his leadership of the bible students, rutherford would laud and praise ctr and even stated that ctr was leading the movement personally while being "beyond the vail"( from the heavens after his death).

so for a time the judge actually promoted remembering ctr to retain followers.

Joe Grundy

How do JWs reconcile this teaching of 'Jehovah'?:

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/fashion/lv19_27a.html

18

WBTS CASH to CONDOS "DUMBO" developments

by DannyHaszard in

the site of four planned towers, for 1,600 jehovah's witnesses, in hip, happening dumbo.

side by side

new york times, united states - 7 hours ago .

Joe Grundy

Someone I 'know' through another board who lives in the DUMBO area has mentioned that recently one large apartment building has been occupied and looks very opulent. Apparently it has nice subdued red lighting in the entrance lobby area.

I assume that this is 'Bethel' residences? (Though the red lighting put me in mind of a high class brothel).

73

look at my birthdate

by mouthy in

jw
friends

<<<<<<<<monday i want you all to send your greetings.

nothing nasty gumby!!!!

just kind sweet things to a very old lady!!!!!

Joe Grundy

Happy Birthday to you both.

27

Watchtower assaults its youth fear/guilt/baptism and career July 1, 2006

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

if we imagined for one moment that the majority of youths get baptized, then the july 1, 2006 wt paints a very different picture.

there must be a serious problem in the organization for the society to write so strong an article.

july 1, 2006 wt youths, make it your choice to serve jehovah.

Joe Grundy

As a concerned outsider, the issue of JWs baptising children is one that worries me. Not because of its religious significance - if there is a god I think he'd accept a person baptised as a child saying 'Sorry, I was too young to know what I was doing, let me go away and think about it some more now I'm old enough'. But because as far as I can see, JWs baptism is (implicitly before 1985, explicitly since) a commitment to the WT organisation which the member can only exit through formal processes which can involve shunning and other problems.

As far as the 'age of responsibility' is concerned, some examples from UK law might illustrate how this should be regarded:

Under 10 - a child cannot in law commit a criminal offence because he is not considered of being capable of forming 'criminal intent'
10 to 14 - a child may be convicted of a criminal offence if it is proved to a court that he as an individual was capable of froming 'criminal intent'
14 - may be in a bar with licensee's consent, but may not buy or consume alcohol
16 - may give consent to sex, marry (with parental consent), leave home (with parental consent), buy and consume wine, beer and cider with a meal, leave school, drive a motorcycle under 50 cc, play the national lottery
17 - drive a car, leave home without parental consent
18 - vote, marry without consent, buy and consume alcohol in bars, etc., now an 'adult' (although still some restrictions on vehicles to be driven).

In view of these, what should be regarded as the 'age of responsibility' for such a major life decision as being baptised into JWs? It depends on the individual, of course, but IMHO 14 would be a fair minimum.

I can understand of course why WTBTS is so keen to baptise children before they are old enough to think for themselves. Like any other major international corporation it is figures and results driven.

17

I claim the right to be equally intolerant!

by Gill in

jw
friends

Joe Grundy

Gill, at 20 your son is old enough to know what he's doing. And no doubt what he's doing is bringing stress on you and your husband to the detriment of your family.

You could always suggest he moves in with her (not a practical possibility, I understand) or tell him that if he wants to carry on living at home (and no doubt being subsidised by you) you will lay down ground rules (e.g. she will not come to your house, etc.).

My son and daughter are slightly older than him and I never had quite this sort of problem. There were a couple of occasions though where I told them that their behaviour was causing family stress, that they were old enough to be responsible for their actions, and that if it came down to it they would have to leave home. Now (just a couple of years later) they accept that I was right.

Ultimately, it is your home, your family, and you don't have to put up with this.

17

I claim the right to be equally intolerant!

by Gill in

jw
friends

Joe Grundy

This is a problem, and your son is not thinking straight. You don't say how old he is, but I'm sure you know that men in general have a problem that when some bits go hard the brain goes soft.

Does your son know the anguish you have suffered because of these people? Would a sit-down talk with him by you and your hubbie laying it all out for him help?

If it came to the crunch, I'm afraid that (depending on his age and circs) I would force him to choose between remaining living with you and this relationship. If it is just sex, there's plenty on offer from less damaging sources.

28

One more rant!!!

by Gill in

jw
friends

i'm afraid i haven't finished ranting yet.

sorry peoples.. we have been shunned for five years now by my husband's jw family, who are his parents, his brother, my sister in law and their two little children.. this evening, my mother in law rang, asking my husband to ring his brother as his wife was unwell and unable to work for the next couple of weeks.

could we lend them some money for a while!!!!!

Joe Grundy

I've just read this and your other thread about your son. You have every excuse to rant. The 'son' one is more difficult, I think, because (speaking as the father of two grown-up children) I suspect that whatever he does you'll 'be there' for him.

As far as this bit is concerned, the money I mean, I agree with other posters. Definitely 'no', and a hell of a cheek to ask. I have had an experience of a leech within the family, and if my father had shown him the door many years ago a lot of misery would have been avoided.

17

The daughter of a prostitute.

by greendawn in

if asked: would you marry a prostitute most people would say no, but if asked would you marry a prostitute's daughter that doesn't like this game and has never been in it, would you do it, to have a prostitute as a mother in law and grand mother of your children?

.

i personally wouldn't do it hard though it may be on her decent daughter.

Joe Grundy

Would I marry a prostitute? No.

But if she was a former prostitute, or a prostitute's daughter, I hope I would consider marrying her just as I would anyone else. Not my place to judge, people have many reasons for doing what they do, and IME some prostitutes are open honest and good people.